To jump or not to jump

zĩѵɑ : care for a small discussion amongst the few here ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : sure if you have something you would like to discuss

zĩѵɑ : i do if Aany are interested … is it ever wise, in the lifestyle to throw caution to the wind and just jump blindly into a relationship ? or is the slow and steady always the best way ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : hmmmmmmm

•bliss• : i dunno ziva

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I think it's always important to take your time with any relationship ... when it is one that may include kink or BDSM there are more reasons to be cautious unless of course you are interested in just a whirl and not something long term ,,, I've had some lovely time-limited relationships that were absolutely divine

•bliss• : so've i

•bliss• : i think personal instinct and intuition are pretty important. It's a good idea to listen to your gut even when heart and mind are headed in other direction. but safety is important no matter what

zĩѵɑ : do You think long term could ever come from just jumping ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : oh I imagine it could

•bliss• :  think long term relations can happen when one jumps in... but i think its still a good idea to test the waters and be smart about it first

zĩѵɑ : thank Yyou both, it was just thought i had come up today

•bliss• : what do you think ziva?

zĩѵɑ : im kinna torn on it to be honest....... i mean, if someone always the slow and steady road and yet, its met with pain each time........... i think throwing caution to the wind and just diving is sometimes helpful. maybe i am going way off track in this … it sounded better in my head then when i typed it out

•bliss• : well speaking from experience, i can be pretty impulsive sometimes... it doesnt always end well but on the flip side… slow and steady doesn’t always end well either …. i take it super slow and then i get kinda bored and that doesn’t end well either

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I'd say, now this is making sure you feel confident in being safe as bliss said, that jumping into something can be fun, exciting, enjoyable, and mutually beneficial …. Indulgence can be extremely delicious

•bliss• : you can still do all that and set up safe calls and boundaries

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yup

•bliss• : i'm learning for myself that i have to set boundaries because i'm often far too open about things and it's not good.and now that i'm a mom... boundaries are even more important from a practical point of view

zĩѵɑ : yes they can be Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I had one brief relationship with a woman who was a friend and classmate of My intern …. she was Australian and once she graduated was returning to Australia

•bliss• : so you knew right off the hop that it wasn't long term but more of a fun thing Sir?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yes ... she had 6 weeks left in the US and was wanting to have sex with an American man before she left ... I became her token American man

•bliss• : haha! reminds me of a summer fling i had once ... lmao token american what a great guy you are, taking one for the team Sir

zĩѵɑ : but when you throw caution to the wind and just dive in....are you really thinking bounderies ?

•bliss• : absolutely ziva … i'm always thinking boundaries...

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : Me too heck sometimes I have not gone far enough according to the other person

MegaGRed : I think for older people that are in their 80s and 90s wearing 3D glassess may give them heart attacks

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : another time .... and this had all sorts of cautions to it ... a woman I worked with ... she was one of the psychologists in our counseling center at the university … we were very, very close friends, a great friendship as people and colleagues

•bliss• : hmmm... that sounds scary Shifting Sir... i'm not sure i'd be comfortable... or maybe i'd be too comfortable …. i dunno

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well her partner had had a fling with another woman .... she was going away for the holiday break and judy was staying in town ... they had talked it over and said it would be a good time for judy to have her turn with a fling

MegaGRed : they drop the gun and shoot themselves

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : it was very surprising that what she wanted for a fling was to be with a man and took a lotta convo of course as she was lesbian but we did have an absolutely wonderful 4 days of indulgence

•bliss• smiles sounds fantastic Sir …. see, ziva? caution to the wind but with boundaries

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : it was ... and no harm, no foul ...

•bliss• : lol

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : exactly bliss ... knowing oneself is good ...

•bliss• smiles

zĩѵɑ : and the gut feeling should always be listened to ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I'd say .... if you trust your gut

•bliss• : but i always listen to my gut

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yup and I'm sure it's because you know yourself well

MegaGRed : I have to agree

•bliss• : i'm learning... i think i learn more every day but... when i get the "no" feeling... i bolt

zĩѵɑ : oh i am a firm believer we never stop learning

MegaGRed : never let bad mistakes keep you from learning

•bliss• : indeed Mega Sir

zĩѵɑ : thats where i always have a problem......... i over question the......... no...... feeling

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : you mean no emotional attachment?

•bliss• : as in trying to talk yourself out of it?

zĩѵɑ : no Sir, that little feeling inside that says ....no.... bolt... run.... and fast.......... i seem to tend to question those

•bliss• : i sometimes get that "should i?... shouldn't i?" feeling... but when it's a clear No.. or something is seriously lacking... i have to take action

zĩѵɑ : yes bliss

MegaGRed : thats what I notice people that experience bad things in life, they stop learning and it becomes a close door in their lives. Instead of staying in the past from that bad experince always look forward.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : have you found yourself in harmful situations when you have?

zĩѵɑ : harmful as in physical harm....... no Sir........ harmful as in the heart and soul..... yes Sir..... i don’t listen to my gut when i should

•bliss• : some people do that Mega Sir... but i've met far more who end up going in a whole different direction and bar the door so well... nothing gets through and that ain't good either

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : ok well that to Me would be a boundary to listen to .... if what you want is a heart and sould connection you do need to take your time

•bliss• : yeah... because it always feels like a heart and soul connection at first … gawdddd i know alll aout that

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : mmmmmmmm ... maybe ...... but is that a projection of what you want, expect, hope for as opposed as what is offered, negotiated, available?

•bliss• : thats a good question Sir

zĩѵɑ :  i think sometimes people settle for what’s offered and available in hopes for what they want and expect

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nods

•bliss• nods well... you know what they say.. You get what you settle for

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : or think that what has been discussed, is actually available will somehow change or evolve into something more while already saying OK I can live with that

•bliss• : should there always be evolution?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nope

•bliss• : otherwise life becomes stagnant i dunno Sir. i s'pose im still working that one out.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I'm pretty literal about life .... I take things at face value and present them that way

•bliss• : wow ziva... you got me thinking pretty deep tonight. i wasnt prepared for this!

zĩѵɑ : lol when it comes to the lifestyle, i can think of many many topics i would like to learn about

•bliss• : face value is important Sir... but when at year end, don't you reflect on your accomplishments and make note of where you've been and where you are? i like to do that in my relationships too... i like to examine growth

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I do that pretty constantly

•bliss• : i HAVE to reflect like that it's what helps me move forward

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I remember once discussing another relationship with someone who told Me I was selfish because I said that I was not having more children and that it was a reality anyone would have to accept if they were thinking long term … this person knew I already had 3 children and had been snipped

•bliss• : that's not selfishness.. that's called being responsible

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yes I thought so .... but My point is that here she was overlooking some reasonable evidence and surely not appreciating the testimony lol

•bliss• : lol she seems short sighted Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : now from her perspective ... something was wrong with Me and I would be to blame for the harmful consequences if the other person could not accept the boundaries

•bliss• : well that's just a matter of finding the right fit with someone who has the same goals

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : oh I agree

•bliss• : i dont see it as being a harmful consequence

zĩѵɑ : i dont see it as it being Your fault as You stated the bounderies before hand....... to me that is a whole different story

•bliss• : uh huh what she said

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : My point though is that there are people who are unreasonable, do not listen, and think things SHOULD change to be the way they want … and if they don't ... they do not see that their wounds as self inflicted

•bliss• : ohhh … whoops … good point and that’s when i would get outta Dodge

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nods

MegaGRed : now thats deep

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : not really

•bliss• : uh huh...

zĩѵɑ : nodsnods

•bliss• : see wot 'm sayin' Mega Sir? deep thinking tonight!

MegaGRed : indeed

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : how about You Mega ... have You every thrown caution to the wind and jumped into the deep end of the pool?

MegaGRed : oh yes seen my share of those

•bliss• : forget the pool! i've found myself in an ocean with sharks!

zĩѵɑ : do You think it happens more for submissives than for Doms ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : what happens more ziva?

zĩѵɑ : diving Sir do You think that subs dive more than Doms

MegaGRed : I believe its an equal matter that both share

•bliss• : hmm

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : gosh I don't really know I just know how I am

zĩѵɑ : lol sorry, seee i can one topic and run in all directions with it

•bliss• : i'd like to say its equal... but i think if you take into account the need to please that some subs have... it might be different that need can sometimes be so strong that it's a struggle to see things clearly.

zĩѵɑ : exactually bliss i do fully agree

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I hear enough stories here that makes Me think that there are numerous alleged Doms that are just as anxious to collar someone as there are those who are anxious to be collared

•bliss• : that's true Sir.. it goes both ways

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : off line I know of alleged doms who behave the same way

•bliss• : as do i Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : as if the collar is their identity or affirmation somehow of their dominance

•bliss• : uh huh... i know subs who can be like that too though ...or affirmation of submission

 ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : oh sure ....  the mark of being a "True" or "Real" dominant or submissive

•bliss• : all i really care about is that i'm loved for me and appreciated for who i am..  the rest imo is hardware 

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nods

•bliss• : okay maybe not the rest... but a lot of it. lol

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I think that is magnified on line ..... the nic is the most visible thing

•bliss• : yes it is

♥♥s♥♥ : think some early think that it is "proof" that they belong, or that it is real. Hopefuly as time passes learn more of themselves and grow. come to understand that it is the people not the outward shows that matter

•bliss• : btw... i agree with you s i think a lot can evolve from growth and understanding

zĩѵɑ : isnt that basically what we all search for.... to be loved and appreciated ?

•bliss• : well sometimes its just a really great orgasm, ziva hehe

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : oh yeah it is!

zĩѵɑ : lol arguement there lol

•bliss• : yep... i can appreciate that!

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : My son and I were just having a talk ... he was concerned with My dating, did I have someone, isn't there someone from the past I might have missed … I told him that I have been very fortunate with love .... have gotten far more than I deserve and that I had no right to ever complain about it and that right now in My life ... I'd be far more interested in living with him or My other son as opposed to some partner

•bliss• : its a nice way to look on it Sir.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nods

•bliss• : i think, there's no one from my past that i would want back, but that i can look back on it fondly and smile thinks we've all been there

zĩѵɑ : indeed

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I once was grieving and sputtering and muttering about a relationship gone wrong … My friend said ... look, I've known at least 3 of the relationships you've had ...... you have no right to complain ... there are people who will never experience even one with the quality you have

•bliss• : well there you go ... smart friend

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : for sure

•bliss• : on that note..i seriously need sleep g'night all

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well sleep seriously then

•bliss• : i plan too!

zĩѵɑ :  good night bliss and thank you for the conversation

♥♥s♥♥ : night bliss

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : night night bliss thank you for participating

•bliss• : thank you all and thanks for the great conversation tonight. i enjoyed greatly
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zĩѵɑ : thank You as well Sir for sharing Your thoughts on the topic

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : My pleasure

MegaGRed : I approve this is a great conversational topic

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yes it was .... all ziva's fault!

zĩѵɑ : lol

MegaGRed : no punishment it was good

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ chuckles

zĩѵɑ : im full of topics

MegaGRed : awesome

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zĩѵɑ : its part of the way i learn

MegaGRed : the Lotus has left the building

zĩѵɑ : asking questions and offering topics

MegaGRed : thats great quality to have ziva to learn as you go with the questions and the answers you get from the doms and subs

zĩѵɑ : hearing Eeveryones thoughts and views helps me put things in proper form.... or to at least make a lil sense of my confusion

MegaGRed : I see

zĩѵɑ : isnt that why topics are offered ? learn from them ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : hopefully, if nothing else I find that it gives Me the opportunity to think through My perspectives, sort of review things I may not have thought about in a long time

zĩѵɑ : i know i do... i learn alot from them

zĩѵɑ looks to the time may i please be excused for bed ?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yes you may ziva

♥♥s♥♥ : night ziva

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♥♥s♥♥ : i need to start peeking in earlier...always seem to catch the tail end

zĩѵɑ : sorry i was trying to say thank You SW Sir and thank You for Your views on the topic tonight, i fully enjoyed it......... please have a wonderful night

zĩѵɑ : gnite Mega Sir, thank You as well Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : you as well

zĩѵɑ : gnite s

♥♥s♥♥ : night ziva

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ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well ya know s you always have a front row seat reserved

♥♥s♥♥ : thank You Sir will remember that

MegaGRed : I had some popcorn left and was eating as the show in here went on

♥♥s♥♥ :  missed a show as well? or are You refering to the discussion lol

MegaGRed : the discussion lol

♥♥s♥♥ : lol never sure here

MegaGRed : which show did you miss

♥♥s♥♥ : i usualy come in at the tail end of the discussions Red but thats ok, even the bit i catch gives me reason to think about.

MegaGRed : indeed as I stated earlier it was indeed deep conversation in here that made everyone think tonight

♥♥s♥♥ : always good

MegaGRed : yep

MegaGRed : well going to hit the bed catch you all next time