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Sunday, October 26, 2014

RACK vs. SSC

by Gary Switch

During a discussion of SSC (Safe, Sane, Consensual) on the TES-Friends list, I proposed RACK (Risk-Aware, Consensual Kink) as an alternative. Here's my motivation:

Nothing's perfectly safe.  Crossing the street isn't perfectly safe. Remember that it's technically called "safer sex," not "safe sex."  If we want to limit BDSM to what's safe, we can't do anything more extreme than flogging somebody with a wet noodle.  Mountain climbers don't call their sport safe, for the simple reason that it isn't; risk is an essential part of the thrill.  They handle it by identifying and minimizing the risk through study, training, technique, and practice.  I believe this approach will work better for us leatherfolk than claiming that what we do is safe.  We want to foster the notion that we develop expertise, that to do what we do properly takes skill developed through a similar process of education, training and practice.

Negotiation cannot be valid without foreknowledge of the possible risks involved in the activity being negotiated.  "Risk-aware" means that both parties to a negotiation have studied the proposed activities, are informed about the risks involved, and agree how they intend to handle them.  Hence "risk-aware" instead of "safe." 

The "sane" part of SSC is very subjective.  Who's making the call?  Person A might think fisting is insane; persons B and C might enjoy it very much. "Sane" always reminds me of Pat Paulsen's campaign slogan from the old Smothers Brothers show: "Vote for Paulsen; he's not insane!"  If you go around constantly reassuring folks that you're not crazy, they'll start to wonder.

I've heard "sane" interpreted as "able to distinguish fantasy from reality" and "not intoxicated," which are both perfectly valid, though the latter is similar to the above--you don't go around constantly reassuring folks that you're not drunk, either.

"Consensual" is the crux, implying negotiation, which implies being able to distinguish fantasy from reality, as well as dealing responsibly with risk factors.  If you don't know the risk factors, or you don't know what will happen in reality, then you don't know what you're consenting to.  Meaningful negotiation must always take place on the common ground of consensus reality.

The "kink" part went in to make a snappy acronym and because SSC doesn't tell you what you should be SSC about.  Safe, Sane and Consensual trout fishing?

Alluding to the rack, an archetypal torture instrument, has been criticized, but to me it signifies our transformation of atrocity into ecstasy, and admits that though we may enjoy some dark fantasies, we realize them harmlessly.

RACK is admittedly more confrontational than SSC. It's defiant, the same way the GLBT community uses "queer."  RACK allows us the freedom to have non-PC (politically correct) fantasies.  Don't a lot of us enjoy non-consensual fantasies, either from the topside or the bottom side?  We enjoy them in our literature; we may very well enjoy them while we play. But we act them out responsibly and consensually.

Permission is granted to reproduce and distribute this essay, as long as it's reproduced in its entirety and is attributed to:

Gary Switch
Contributing Editor

Prometheus Magazine




Safe Sane Consensual - SSC

The Making of a Shibboleth

by slave david stein
under the Guardianship of Master Steve of Butchmann’s


History is what happens while you’re doing something else - and it may not be until years later that you discover what you did was “historic.” When i agreed in mid-1983 to be part of a committee charged with drafting a new “statement of identity and purpose” for New York’s Gay Male S/M Activists (GMSMA), which i’d co-founded two years earlier, i had no idea that what most people would remember of our work would be a single phrase: “safe, sane, and consensual S/M.”

Tens of thousands - maybe hundreds of thousands - of kinky men and women all over North America and around the world, many of whom have no idea what GMSMA stands for, know “Safe Sane Consensual (SSC). They’ve seen those words on T-shirts, on Web sites, in personal ads, in the bylaws and foundation statements of hundreds of organizations, on porn videos, in virtually every kink magazine, in every book or pamphlet or instructional video produced for kink-curious audiences. It has become literally a shibboleth: a linguistic marker used to distinguish “us” from “them.”

Blame me, if you must, though it was not a result i ever intended. The August 1983 report of that GMSMA committee contains the earliest use of the phrase anyone has found, and it seems very likely that i was its author. The statement we drafted reads in full:

GMSMA is a not-for-profit organization of gay males in the New York City area who are seriously interested in safe, sane, and consensual S/M. Our purpose is to help create a more supportive S/M community for gay males, whether they desire a total lifestyle or an occasional adventure, whether they are just coming out into S/M or are long experienced.

Our regular meetings and other activities attempt to build a sense of community by exploring common feelings and concerns. We aim to raise awareness about issues of safety and responsibility, to recover elements of our tradition, and to disseminate the best available medical and technical information about S/M practices. We seek to establish a recognized political presence in the wider gay community in order to combat the prevailing stereotypes and misconceptions about S/M while working with others for the common goals of gay liberation.

This wording was adopted without change by the board of directors on August 17, 1983, and from then on the statement has appeared in every GMSMA brochure and membership application as well as other literature distributed at meetings and events or mailed to thousands of individuals and hundreds of other organizations. (The only changes made over the years were to drop the reference to New York City and to replace “males” with “men.”)

While i have no specific memory of coining “safe, sane, and consensual S/M,” i do  remember that i came to the committee meeting where we hashed out the statement with a complete draft that was close to the final text. Both of the other members of the committee, Martin Berkenwald and Bob Gillespie, are now gone, but before his  death in September 2000, Bob told Gil Kessler (who discovered the committee report in the GMSMA archives) that he believed i had come up with the formulation. It certainly sounds like my style, and it seems to grow out of other pieces i wrote in the early 1980s where i struggled to distinguish the kind of S/M i wanted to do from the criminally abusive or neurotically self-destructive behavior popularly associated with the term “sadomasochism.” However, i’m not claiming authorship out of pride - I think the phrase’s popularity may have done as much harm as good - but to support my interpretation of its origin.

The Past Recaptured
Looking back, i’m convinced that “safe” and “sane” were not conjoined by chance but derived from an exhortation familiar to most Americans, “Have a safe and sane Fourth of July.” Every year while i was growing up, i heard that phrase on TV, or saw it in the newspapers and on billboards, and it stuck. Apparently it stuck with the late Tony DeBlase, too, because “safe and sane” appears in an unsigned essay he wrote for the Chicago Hellfire Club’s Inferno 10 (1981) run book:

In 1980 the following was adopted as the club’s statement of purpose: “. . . to provide education and opportunities for participation in S&M sex among consenting adult men and to foster communication among such individuals.” Responsible S&M has become more popular and less feared in the gay community and Chicago Hellfire Club continues to serve its community — striving always to educate and promote safe and sane enjoyment of men by men.

Inferno 10 was the first i attended, and it made a big impression on me, so Tony’s words may have suggested the application of “safe and sane” to S/M, and even the association with “consensual.” But the GMSMA statement of purpose was the first place all three terms were jointly applied to S/M.

As a kid, what i took “Have a safe and sane Fourth” to mean was, “Have a good time, but don’t be stupid and burn the house down or blow your hand off.” More than two decades later, that seemed to fit S/M just fine. What we meant by “safe and sane S/M” in 1983 was, “Have a good time, but keep your head and understand what you’re doing so you don’t end up dead or in the hospital - or send someone else there.” It seems likely that the echo of a phrase trusted authority figures (like firemen and police officers) have used for many years explains why many Americans felt immediately comfortable with “safe, sane, and consensual” - and also why many others, less inclined to trust authority, were immediately turned off by it.1 Clearly, GMSMA’s consistent use and dissemination of the phrase through the 1980s and beyond laid the groundwork for its explosive spread in the next decade.

But the most important vectors were the S/M-Leather Contingent in the 1987 March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights and the even larger S/M-Leather-Fetish Contingent in the 1993 March on Washington. During a planning session for the 1987 march called by GMSMA and held at New York’s Lesbian and Gay Community Services Center on April 21, 1987, representatives of the S/M-Leather Contingent discussed the pros and cons of “Safe Sane Consensual” and various alternatives (“Safe Responsible Consensual” is the only one i still remember). At length we settled on SSC as the most effective slogan for leather-oriented march publicity - never dreaming how fateful our choice would turn out to be. From June 10, 1987, onward, the slogan appeared at the top of all correspondence, press releases, and newsletters from the contingent, and it was the centerpiece of thousands of T-shirts as well.

The 1993 march may have been even more instrumental in popularizing the SSC slogan, since in addition to its use in publicity material and on T-shirts, it was also emblazoned on the S/M-Leather-Fetish Contingent’s 20-foot-wide banner. For the entire day preceding the march, that same banner hung across the grand entrance of the government building on Constitution Avenue that hosted our huge S/M-Leather-Fetish Conference. Thousands of men and women from all over the U.S. and many foreign countries saw those three words, identified with them, and took them back to their local communities.2

The Devolution of a Slogan
The trouble is, once an idea is reduced to a slogan that can fit on a button or T-shirt, no one can control its meaning. Everyone who sees it interprets it with his or her own prejudices and preconceptions - it all depends on how you understand the key terms. If you read “safe,” for instance, as “avoiding pointless or unnecessary risks,” then SSC will look very different from the way it does if you read “safe” as “risk-free.”

While most people active in S/M organizations have taken SSC as validating a form of sexuality still considered “sick” or “crazy” by much of our society, others have read the same formula as devaluing “edgeplay” and even simple excitement in favor of cautious, conventional, and completely scripted sex games. Shortly after the 1987 March on Washington, T-shirts appeared reading, “Unsafe Insane Nonconsensual,” and some prominent S/M educators were seen wearing them once or twice, but these were more of a joke than a serious critique. Thoughtful, articulate attacks on SSC didn’t appear until later, particularly Laura Antoniou’s “Unsafe at Any Speed, or Safe, Sane, and Consensual, My Fanny,”3 Joseph W. Bean’s “The SSC Mistake,”4 “The Future of Leather,”5 Phil Julian’s “Beyond Safe Sane Consensual,”6 and Gary Switch’s “The Origin of RACK / RACK vs. SSC,”7 which proposes “Risk-Aware Consensual Kink” as an alternative slogan.8

In the beginning, however, “safe, sane, and consensual S/M” wasn’t a slogan but simply the preamble to a statement of purpose that goes on to talk about such things as community, responsibility, tradition, education, and gay liberation.

Moreover, in that statement the SSC formula was explicitly said to embrace all levels of S/M practice, from the first steps of novices to the edgeplay of veterans, as well as all degrees of commitment, from “a total lifestyle” to “an occasional adventure.” This context demonstrates that SSC was originally intended neither as an ideal to live up to nor as a way of defining S/M in general. But it was definitely intended to draw lines between S/M behavior we wanted to encourage and other behavior we wanted to distance ourselves from.

Being sexually aroused by the infliction or suffering of pain, bondage, or humiliation can lead not only to ecstasy and fulfillment, but also to destructive or self-destructive behavior that no ethical, grounded person would condone. S/M releases powerful emotions and involves intense vulnerability, and the results aren’t always pretty. Sometimes people do things because of their kinks that wreck their lives — or the lives of others. This must not be forgotten or swept under the rug in the quest for social acceptance.

The “safe, sane, and consensual” formula was put forward as a minimum standard for ethically defensible S/M, because that must be the basis for any defense of S/M rights. Today, however, and especially in the hetero and pansexual communities,

S/M itself (or “BDSM,” which some find more palatable) is frequently defined in terms of SSC, while the SSC slogan is treated with quasi-religious reverence and even explicitly referred to as a “credo” or “creed.” Instead of asking people to think about what it means to do S/M ethically, and to make the hard choices that are sometimes necessary (if only between what’s right and what’s right now), many organizations today act as if these issues have all been settled, assuring us that sadistic or masochistic behavior not deemed SSC isn’t S/M at all but something else — abuse, usually, or domestic violence or poor self-esteem. 

As a result, some people use simplistic conceptions of SSC as sticks to beat anyone whose limits go beyond theirs, while others apparently think mere lip service to the SSC idol absolves them of any responsibility to behave with decency or compassion.

The idea has taken root that whatever is safe, sane, and consensual is good, and whatever isn’t is bad. But that’s as cockeyed as saying that all food approved as safe by the U.S. government is equally nourishing and flavorful, while whatever hasn’t been approved isn’t food at all. Just because an S/M interaction is safe, sane, and consensual doesn’t mean that it’s well done, mutually satisfying, or worth emulating! Even experienced tops and bottoms can have an off day, and even if nothing goes obviously wrong, a well-planned scene may fizzle rather than sizzle. On the other hand, an extremely risky, “lunatic,” or dubiously consensual scene might provide peak experiences that neither party - assuming they survive it - would want to have missed. Being SSC alone is not enough, because it says nothing about why we do S/M in the first place. Or maybe it says too much? The idolization of SSC occurred during the same period that S/M activity came to be almost universally referred to as “play,” S/M practitioners as “players,” and the tools we use as “toys.”

This is probably no accident: no one tells us to “Have a safe and sane” - let alone consensual - day at work. Sensing something lacking in SSC as an ideal, Race Bannon and John Warren,9 among others, have suggested that a fourth term should be added: “fun.” But even while conveying that good S/M is more than just SSC, them amended formula - “safe, sane, consensual, and fun” - reinforces not only the mistaken notion that SSC is a criterion of value at all, but also that S/M is something you do merely “for fun” and not with any serious intent.

There is, indeed, such a thing as “serious play” - some of humanity’s finest artistic, intellectual, and spiritual achievements fall into that category - but it’s not what most people think of as “having fun.” The same revolution that decoupled heterosex from procreation and gave us sport-fucking has turned S/M into a sexoptional form of recreation (explicit equations of S/M with sports are commonplace in pro-S/M discourse today). Less hazardous than football but almost as strenuous, it even has aerobic benefits.

The Dangers of Definition
To define is to limit, and GMSMA’s original purpose was not to establish an orthodoxy but to facilitate dialogue - that’s why we resisted attempts to promulgate any “official” definition of S/M, or of SSC.10  Back in 1983, we knew that beyond the obvious applications of “safe,” “sane,” and “consensual,” there are vast gray areas and no absolutes. Reasonable people can differ on what these terms mean or apply them differently in different contexts. But they provide a starting point for making choices about the kind of S/M you want to do (not the specific kinks and scenes, of course, but the ethical principles that shape your practice).

Safety, especially, differs from one individual and situation to another. A maneuver that’s perfectly safe for a gymnast to perform could easily lead to a broken neck for an untrained tumbler. A flogging that one bottom finds exhilarating might damage another with less experience or preparation. A session of rigid bondage and sensory deprivation that leads me to ecstasy might send you to a mental hospital.  Even crossing the street, we have to decide what level of risk is acceptable - why should our responsibility be any less in an S/M scene or relationship?

What we meant by “safe S/M” back in 1983 - as the full GMSMA statement of purpose implies - was the opposite of careless, irresponsible, or uninformed S/M. We meant doing your homework and taking reasonable precautions. We never intended to promote only G-rated S/M or to turn the leather scene into a risk-free playpen where pain doesn’t really hurt, bondage isn’t really constraining, and dominance is being ordered to do what you want to do anyway.

We left “sane” and “consensual” much vaguer, “sane” because it’s pretty vague anyway once you get past the obvious meaning - “able to distinguish fantasy from reality” - and “consensual” because we didn’t realize how tricky it is. We didn’t have the benefit of a couple of decades of rising awareness of just how hard it can be to leave an abusive spouse. We did not discuss, back then, whether consent was something you could give once and for all, or if it has to be renewed continuously - the now-familiar paradoxes of “consensual nonconsensuality.” Without such an analysis, however, it’s all too easy to read the requirement of consensuality as analogous to the rules against “date rape,” meaning that the top, dominant, or Master/Mistress has to stop and ask permission of the bottom, submissive, or slave at each point where the type of activity changes. This might work okay in a play session between people who are simply interested in sharing certain sensations, but it would fatally subvert any ongoing Dominant/submissive or Master/slave relationship - or even the kind of intense S/M scenes where the bottom goes nonverbal and is temporarily unable to make choices.

The choice GMSMA faced back in 1983 was whether to explore/discuss/defend the full range of S/M behavior - thus opening ourselves to attack based on every case of predatory sadomasochism critics could uncover, or invent - or to limit the field in some way. By saying we were interested in “safe, sane, and consensual S/M,” we were trying to draw a very basic distinction: between, on one hand, the bondage, torture, or control inflicted on willing partners for mutual satisfaction and, on the other hand, the coercive abuse of unwilling victims. We thought this restriction would leave those hostile to all S/M no rational basis for objection to what GMSMA was up to, exposing the more fundamental sex phobia that underlies most attempts to police sexual expression. (Setting ourselves up as a new brand of sex police was the farthest thing from our minds.) At the same time, we felt that the SSC emphasism would help those of us who had to some extent internalized the same prejudices - which back then meant most of us! - to accept that you don’t have to become a victim or a predator to satisfy sexual needs for pain or control.

Unfortunately, it is not only sensationalistic journalism and reactionary religion that persistently equates S/M with coercive behavior, but also much of our own erotica, and this, too, is no accident. Back when GMSMA was getting started, almost everyone understood S/M in coercive terms because those were the only terms we had. The first step in bringing consensual S/M out of the closet was to forge a language to talk about it. SSC was a spectacularly effective part of that process, but today it is sometimes more of an obstacle than a help in continuing the kind of dialogue that builds community - and even more of a hindrance to the partly nonverbal dialogue of seduction and consent11 that underlies satisfying leathersex between individuals.

Freedom from Fear
For most people in my generation and earlier, the images of S/M were initially as scary as they were arousing. And taking the first steps toward realizing our fantasies - from either side, top or bottom - was even scarier. We didn’t yet have the benefit of two decades of S/M education and activism, and the iconography of gay S/M in Drummer magazine and elsewhere was very edgy, very “noncon.” In the early 1980s, as again today in certain circles, being known as “dangerous” or “having no limits” could seem sexy or exciting, while being “taken” or forced into submission could seem more authentic than a negotiated encounter. While it was probably no more likely for an S/M scene back then to end up in the hospital than it is today - maybe less likely - the gay leather scene had an aura of danger that made me and many others hesitate to get involved in it, or have mixed feelings about it, despite our strong need for S/M. A desire to reduce that aura of danger was one of the chief things that led us to form GMSMA in the first place, and i’m sure there was a similar motive for founding many later organizations as well, particularly the heterosexual and pansexual ones.

Obviously, we’ve succeeded to a remarkable extent, with more than a little help from the zeitgeist. Since the 1980s S/M has grown progressively less scary, to the point that many teenagers today are more comfortable with piercing, bondage, and dominant/submissive role-play than their parents were with oral sex. For these kids, coming out into S/M is no big deal - much less of one, in fact, than coming out as gay or lesbian. (Thank you, Madonna and Trent Reznor!) But maybe the pendulum has swung too far. The critics of SSC have focused mainly on the “vanillification” of S/M that an overemphasis on safety and mundane “sanity” can produce. For a good many bottoms, risk-taking is part of the point of doing S/M - if a scene doesn’t get their adrenaline pumping, it’s a waste of time.

For me and many others, though, fear is a turn-off - we need to feel safe as a precondition for surrendering control; only then can we fly. Yet even for us, the transformation of “safe, sane, and consensual” from a vague guideline to an all too rigid ideology has a downside.

Fear can be a survival mechanism, and novices who rush into heavy scenes on a first date, counting on “safewords” or the SSC “credo” to protect them, can be horribly disillusioned even if they’re not physically traumatized. The risk of being snuffed by a psychopath is minuscule (though not nonexistent). What seems all too common today, however, is for novice bottoms and submissives to be used and discarded by tops and dominants spoiled by the endless supply of fresh meat — and for novice tops and dom(me)s to be used and discarded by bottoms and subs who never learned that responsibility for a good scene goes both ways.

Instead of approaching our S/M encounters like gourmets relishing a rare feast that required planning, skill, and perhaps some sacrifice to arrange, more and more of us are fast- food junkies satisfied to eat and run. Instead of engaging with each other as unique individuals who happen to need or simply enjoy kinky sex, more and more we treat our partners - both short-term and long-term - merely as props for our fantasies (a tendency exacerbated by cybersex).

Safewords can’t save you from a bad scene or a bad relationship with someone you didn’t know as well as you thought you did, and chanting “Safe Sane Consensual” like a mantra can’t replace years of study and practice in guiding you through the maze of choices we all must make. Whether you do S/M to achieve ecstasy, intimacy, or self-transformation, or simply to have a good time, all that the terms “safe, sane, and consensual” can do is suggest where to begin drawing some boundaries. After that, the real work of establishing - and testing - your individual limits begins.


1 The S/M community often splits along a fault line defined by divergent responses to authority. Some of us are drawn to authority, and even fetishize it, while others rebel against authority and cultivate an outlaw aura. These divergent tastes are expressed not only in how we dress for sex, what kind of playspace décor turns us on, how we talk during a scene, and how we behave toward our sex partners and peers, but also in how we respond to efforts at organizing and mobilizing the community. To go into this in any depth, however, would require an entirely different article.

2 Earlier versions of this essay stated that “Safe Sane Consensual” appeared on the 1987 S/M-Leather Contingent banner and that the slogan was chosen for the contingent by GMSMA’s Community Involvement Committee. Bruce Marcus, a longtime GMSMA board member and officer who was a key figure (along with his partner, the late Barry Douglas) in organizing both contingents, recently corrected these points based on documents and photos in his files.

3 Delivered as part of a 1995 speech in Seattle and subsequently published in Tristan Taormina’s shortlived zine, Pucker Up; a transcript of the whole speech is currently available on the Web at www.sexuality.org/latrans.html

4 Published in the newsletter of Vancouver Activists in S/M, VASM Scene (January/February 1998, Vol. 16, No. 2), and available online at www.iron-rose.com in the Library area as well as on other sites.

5 Delivered as the keynote address at the Great Lakes Leather Conference in Louisville, Kentucky, on Saturday, September 30, 2000, and available online at www.leatherpage.com, under Columns/Opinions.

6 Posted on www.LeatherNavigator.com in 1999 as one of his “Black and Blue” columns but no longer available.

7 Published in Prometheus #37 (May 2001), the magazine of The Eulenspiegel Society (TES) in New York. Gary coined the term RACK on the TES-Friends list on 11/25/99, and it has been discussed on a number of lists since.

8 According to e-mail from an Australian leather Master who goes by the name SARRAS, in some “old guard” circles the slogan was “Committed Compassionate Consensual,” but i haven’t found any independent corroboration of this.

9 See Race Bannon, Learning the Ropes: A Basic Guide to Safe and Fun S/M Lovemaking (Daedalus, 1993), and John Warren, Safe, Sane, Consensual and Fun (Diversified Services, 1996).

10 Nonetheless, the evolution of SSC into a tribal shibboleth was already implicit in GMSMA’s use of it.

11 Joseph W. Bean has suggested “seducing consent” as an alternative to the negotiation paradigm for leathersex encounters. See his Flogging, pages 18-20 (Greenery Press, 2000).


Author’s note: An early draft of this essay was presented in a workshop at the Leather Leadership Conference in Washington, D.C, in April 2000. It is available on the LLC Web site (www.leatherleadership.org) and was also published in one of the final issues of The Sandmutopia Guardian and later reworked slightly for the Spring 2001 issue of NewsLink, the GMSMA newsletter. Although my understanding of the genesis of the “safe sane consensual” idea hasn’t changed, my views of its later development and possible future usefulness have evolved substantially since then.

This more complete and fully thought through version - which also corrects some historical errors - was published in the 20th Anniversary issue, September/October 2002, of VASM Scene, the newsletter of Vancouver Activists in S/M of Vancouver, British Columbia. The essay was commissioned by Joseph W. Bean for an anthology on leather history to be published by the Leather Archives & Museum, and it may eventually appear in such a volume, though Mr. Bean retired as executive director of the LA&M before seeing that project through to completion.



The 9 levels of submission

© Diane Vera


This list has become sort of a defacto BDSM bible of "Submissive Levels" a submissive/slave may or may not attain (in my opinion, the word "slave" is used erroneously throughout this document). The danger in this might be that a submissive may look to this as something to "work toward." This is NOT at all the case. It is not a "stairstep" type of thing, where one begins at level one, and progressively moves through the stages. This simply gives a VERY broad idea of where a submissive may be upon his/her own path. We tend to like labels, though I do not particularly care for them myself. There are far too many shades of kink to pigeonhole, aye? 

As with anything, take what speaks to you, and discard the rest. Oh, and in case you are wondering, I am about at level 7, ~a slow laugh, twinkling eyes~ and that's about where I want to stay, with a bit of cross over to other numbers where appropriate. No level is "better" than another, or classifies one as a "real submissive." You know who and what you are, and the only person one's level of submission should matter to, is his/her Dominant. I have inserted my own comments in purple where I felt clarification might be in order.

1. The outright non-submissive masochist or kinky sensualist - no servitude, humiliation, or giving up of control; Just pain and "spiced up sensuality". Akin to the bedroom submissive -- light bondage, spankings, etc.

2. Pseudo-submissive non slave - not even into "playing" slave but into other submissive role-playing, e.g. school teacher scenes, infantilism, "forced" transvestism. Usually into humiliation interaction to a large degree.

3. Pseudo-submissive play slave - likes to play at being a slave; likes to feel subservient; might, in some cases, like to feel one is being "used" to gratify partner. May even really serve the dominant in some ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the interaction to a large degree.

4. True submissive; non slave - Really gives up control (though only temporarily and within agreed-upon limits), but gets her/his main satisfaction from aspects of submission, other than serving or being used by the dominant. Usually turned on by suspense, vulnerability, and/or giving up responsibility. Doesn't dictate the scene except in very general terms, but still seeks mainly his/her own direct pleasure (rather than getting one's pleasure mainly from pleasing dominant).

5. Submissive play slave - (I have a problem with the term slave here, I feel that a slave is pretty much what is described in #9) Really gives up control (though only temporarily, within limits) and gets main satisfaction from serving dominant - but only for FUN purposes, usually erotic. May or may not be into pain. If so, is turned on by pain indirectly, i.e. enjoys partner's pleasure, on which the submissive places very few requirements or restrictions.

6. Uncommitted short-term but more than play semi-slave - Really gives up control (usually within limits). Wants to serve and be enslaved by the dominant; wants to provide practical/non-erotic as well as fun/erotic services; but only when the "slave" is in the mood. May even act as a full-time slave for, say, several days at a time, but is free to quit at any time (or at the end of agreed-upon several days). May or may not have long term relationship. Either way, the "slave" has the final say over when she will serve.

7. Part-time consensual but real slave - (Disagrees with the term slave here, again, it may be semantics, but I do not consider this level to be "slave")  Has an ongoing commitment to an owner/slave relationship and regards oneself as the dominant's property at all times. Wants to obey and please dominant in all aspects of life -- practical/non-erotic and fun/erotic. Devotes most of time to other commitments (e.g. job, kids) but dominant has first pick of the slave's (submissive's) free time.

8. Full-time; live-in; consensual slave - Within no more that a few broad limits/requirements, the slave regards her/himself as existing solely for the Dom's pleasure/well being. Slave expects to be regarded as a prized possession. Not much different from the situation of the traditional housewife, except that within the S/M world the slave's position is more likely to be fully consensual. Within the S/M world, a full time slave "arrangement" is entered into with explicit awareness of the magnitude of power that is being given up, and hence is usually entered into much more carefully, with more awareness of the possible dangers, and with much clearer and more specific agreements than usually precede the traditional marriage.

9. Consensual-Total slave with no limits - A common fantasy ideal. Probably doesn't exist in real life (accept in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where the consent is induced by social or economic pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few SM purists will insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do absolutely anything for your Dom, with no limits.




Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Rituals

»†«phøéb뻆« : so SW the topic earlier was kinky movies such as the secretary

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : ahh

»†«phøéb뻆« : which would be appropriate for nilla people to be introduced to the lifestyle and other options

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well I always recommend an old classic ... Behind the Green Door

»†«phøéb뻆« : behind the green door? … havent heard of that movie

Sciicure : its a porno from the 70's

«heta»♥Atën : i like 9 1/2 Weeks.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : It is an old Adult film starring Marilyn Chambers .... it marked a significant change in adult films because it actually had a plot and storyline ... and Marilyn was maybe the first superstar in the industry … she also, as an infant, was the child on Ivory Snow

freshy : she gets kidnapped right?

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yes she does freshy ... and is taken to a place where she is immersed in sensual and erotic stimulation … both men and women, mostly just lots of touching and kissing …. then lead her out into what could be a small theater in the round, quite provocative and lots of ritualism in it

»†«phøéb뻆« : that sounds cool and quite delicious to watch

Sciicure : Caligula was another movie from roughly the same time period that had a big impact on the mainstream

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : yup that was another that garnered attention

freshy : i lost some innocence just watching Caligula lol

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : slowly over the course of the evening her resistance diminishes as her carnal instincts become more and more titillated as she becomes more and more active and participatory the camera scans the audience as they watch and are also turned on and enjoy themselves as well

freshy : "slowly her resistence dimished as her carnal instincts became more titilated" haaave mercy

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : lol well, that is what happens

»†«phøéb뻆« : i must seek that movie out

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I believe it is available on DVD

Sciicure : or you can rip it from the internet

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : what I like about it ... putting aside the kidnap/forced aspect is that it nicely depicts the open scene aspect within a group, makes use of ritualism, and is appreciative of sensuality as part of the erotic experience, Marilyn went on to write, direct, and produce as well as star in her films

»†«phøéb뻆« : nods

freshy : ritualism is a great topic

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : I like rituals Myself freshy

freshy : me too … what kinds of rituals? … or maybe we could talk about kinds of rituals

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well ... such as greetings, serves of course ..... ummm ... silent commands ... things activities that enhance and would define that the day is done and now she and I are free to be in station

«heta»♥Atën : My previous r/l Owner had me recite a mantra every night before bed and first thing in the morning…. Well, that's a ritual …. thought she would throw something specific out there.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : nods good example

Sciicure : its a good one it can be anything

«heta»♥Atën : agreed Greeting Him on her knees at the door everyday when He arrives.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : for Me it can be the most subtle thing that acknowledges the D/s of the relationship

Sciicure : I instruct how to cut and light my cigars for me

¤navy¤ has cut 2....but hasn't lit any yet.... i might enjoy the nicotine to much.....

Sciicure : you toasted them, thats the same thing

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : there are just times and situations when the D/s part of a relationship cannot be public, or blatant at least, subtle gestures do nicely to actualize it

Sciicure : Davidoffs are an expensive habit

«heta»♥Atën : True, Shifting Sir.

zĩva : agreess with SW Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : On Friday nights, when I was there ahead of her, I would have My girl stop in the hallway, drop her briefcase and anything else she was carrying, lock the door, then proceed to remove her clothes and crawl into the living room where I would be sitting … it was a nice way to symbolically close out the rest of the world

freshy :

zĩva : a very nice way indeed Sir

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : or if W/we were attending a gathering, I would bathe her, watch her fix her hair, apply makeup, sometimes making suggestions or giving instructions, and then dress her

«heta»♥Atën : That is lovely, Shifting Sir.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : so freshy ... you're turn ... any rituals you like?

freshy : i like rituals that focus me on the Other totally-center me that way. like giving a foot bath and massage when He comes home. methodically.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : ahhh

»†«phøéb뻆« : rituals are definitely calming

«heta»♥Atën : agrees.

Alchum : anything good takes time and care.

freshy : for a time i fantasized about rituals that began with being flogged . i tried to figure out what drove that but i never did figure out why that was imperative. i think-in retrospect-it had to do with having no choice but to shut the world out-internally-but i still don't really know.

Alchum : Innnnnteresting...

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : all of that makes sense

«heta»♥Atën : Yes... to be quiet internally.

Alchum : something that focused you - brought you into a clearer thought.

freshy : singular thought

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : Now I might do something using a flogger ... not really whip you ... but to pet, brush ... leave the implied threat dangling ... as I told you all those things

Sciicure : coupled with 4 words whispered in your ear

♠₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ♠ : to fill the room with scents that calm...lights that are easy on the eyes...sounds of the waves gently hitting the shore..the patter of naked feet across the the floor,,a breathe that fills the room with passion and the security of knowing ur with someone that wants to fullfill ur desires

»†«phøéb뻆« : i'd want to be blindfolded so i would have one sense eliminated so that the others become heightened

«heta»♥Atën : it's a beautiful place - everything is tuned out.

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : ohhh good ones Sonny

«heta»♥Atën : Lovely, Sonny Sir

«heta»♥Atën : i love blindfolds

Alchum : exactly, freshy. singlular thought. Mind honed on one thing...like a laser … to where you almost see nothing and notice nothing else.

freshy : and yet you feel every every, every, every thing, Alchum

Alchum : nods...to the deepest degree and know...KNOW...who you're feeling it for and why.

♠₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ♠ : sometimes it is just as important to elevate the senses as it is to weave thru reality

freshy : you people are awesome!

♠₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ♠ : speaking of being blindfolded....is there any greater feeling then to sit back and just feel....no sight...just feel

¤navy¤ : i like blindfolds...but i also think that being told not to open your eyes helps with the "mental bondage" and you've got to dig deep for the strength NOT to open them...if that makes sense

«heta»♥Atën : it does, navy

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : i dont care for blindfolds it hides the eyes

«heta»♥Atën : they help with tuning things out for me.

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : eyes speak more deeply and more profoundly than words ever could

freshy : sort of like the flogger is the jaws-of-life that cuts open the back -the thick skin of "life out there" and one is instantly vulnerable, viscerally tuning in to the Other and sensing everything the body can take it

«heta»♥Atën : Flogger + blindfold = nothing else exists but He and i.

Alchum : I was always a little more psychological, myself. But well put, freshy.

freshy loves the psychological part too

«heta»♥Atën : the psychological part is the most important part to me.

Sciicure : floggers can be much more subtle than any other toy I own … the slow rhythmic build up from the caress to the biting sting

¤navy¤ lets out a soft sigh....

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : ohhhh I could not agree more Sciicure it can be used in the most affectionate and gentle of ways ..... and be applied in the most brutal of ways

Alchum : football, star trek and psychology. *approving nod*

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : its easy to get lost blindfolded, to me much harder to focus when not...which adds to the special place im taken to...and to the discipline involved in getting there

freshy : ...the discipline involved in getting there... that's interesting

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : i guess blindfolding to me is kinda like running an obstacle course with the obstacles removed

«heta»♥Atën : i'd rather float away than to struggle for it

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : get's My vote heta

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : but there is discipline in the struggle … discipline is earned

Sciicure : why float when you can soar?

¤navy¤ : i think you've got to float...before you can soar

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : i dont know...it says something about a Master that can command His subs attention even with everything going on around her...and guide her where He wants her to be … but i guess im different that way

ﺼﺸ§hìftìñgWìñdﻌﻀ : well .... I'm not sure what it is that would be going on all around if it was she and I preparing for whatever was in store for the time

dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ : Yyou all have a good night

› dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ has left the conversation.

› dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ has joined the conversation.

› dǐxǐę¤bůŧŧęяfɭɣ has left the conversation.

♠₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ♠ : no doubt for each it is different.....none is wrong or right.....what takes you to that higher lever is what is important … learning and experiencing with another is the goal

«heta»♥Atën : i think each person should be allowed their opinions and likes.

Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Degrees of submission



StealthSpanker™ : for this discussion, as with most discussions, there isnt a right or wrong answer .... I have a a standard answer for a relationship be it M/s D/s etc ..... for Me it is 2 ppl going forward for there O/own common good, how they get there depends on communication for one

simply_s : speaking for myself, the title alone was a red flag. Degree of submissioin. I immeditalty felt on defensive.like the submissive/slave debate....is one "more" then the other....is one better because of what they desire or what they are able to give of  themselves

total_surrender : i agree with s... i was going to skip the discussion all together... it is an uncomfortable topic... and quite honestly... how i submit or perhaps i should say how fully i submit is based on whom i am submitting too and not who i am

simply_s : reading it i started thinking more in terms of definitions of rather then "degrees'

StealthSpanker™ : I knew when I read this it would generate many opinions and that is what this for

total_surrender : but it also can hurt feelings... my submission is very personal... and what is full submission to me... may not be to another

StealthSpanker™ : that is 100% correct surre .... same goes for a Dominant ... what I do is for Me no one else except the person I’m with

total_surrender : yes Sir... and those that are off line might have an opinion different than online submissives... i know before coming here i did ... but i have come to know s... and i know her commitment to Sir Ulrich is as real for her and her Master... as mine was to Kirk

simply_s : i have learned not to let that bother me....what O/others think, or feel i "should be" or how i "should behave" and i at different times have had people refer to me as different ones of these definitions.....but have been people who judge by me here in the room and in truth have no idea what i do or dont do, or how i serve or don't serve .

StealthSpanker™ : it is all indivual tastes ... compatibility with your partner means something to Me

nitey : I saw some realities in the 9 degrees ....  i think there are degrees of submission and probably degrees of Dominance as well

total_surrender : but i rather not have the lable of what degree i am... it is distressing to me to even think about trying to fit in one of those boxes

nitey : to me, it is a creative framework .... i dont think of it as labels .... do you think that this is similar to phases of a relationship?

total_surrender : i did not see that at all... but i could see how some might

nitey : otherwise i agree with s , no one wants to be categorized in a box or im sorry agree with total surrender

simply_s : for me was more a shift in my thinking...and pushing aside the title. it could be phases, and some will go through various ones, others will remain at a set place. and neither is wrong if it is where they are happy and works for them

nitey : i agree

total_surrender : i agree

nitey : there are some who are simply masochist and those people find sadists to match to

₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ : too often people type cast others based on what their perception is

simply_s : nods, true Sir. people see how O/one behaves in a room and decide they must be ..............?

chiarã : this girl's opinion is rather uncomplicated...as i expressed to Master Stealth this morning the lifestyle is taylor made to the Ttwo involved

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : i think the artical made it sound like a game and its not a game

chiarã : to some it is...and thats really ok ... to some it is just play to Oothers it is deeper and more meaningful

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : all i can say each to to Tthier own and if some want to play only in the bed room so be it

chiarã : exactly doxie

nitey : isn't just about who and whatever people are? .... for a while in my life there was a Sadist that i was only masochist with ... that is all...nothing more ... it was great too

StealthSpanker™ : to Me it is so much more meaning ful out of the bedroom the caring of a Dominant for His girl and vice versa

chiarã : what happens in the bedroom is an extension of the rest of the relationship ... if the rest of the relationship is deep and meaningful then the physical expression is also

simply_s : for many that is all they desire from it, and they shold not be made to feel it is wrong (in my opinion) anymore then T/those who wish to give every detail of their life up to another.....or those who are the many places in between

nitey : i would agree

total_surrender : i agree s

chiarã : agree wholeheartedly s

StealthSpanker™ : icing on tha cake and I have My cake and eat it too

total_surrender : i do not want other to judge me or how what i do

nitey : do they judge you ? ... i dont think anyone ever noticed me enough to judge anything....i am going to have to consider this.

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : i do not understand how the can say they are slave but not commited it was confusing to me

simply_s : see, that should be ok too nitey....for some there does not have to be, or may even prefer there is not an emotional tie . It works for them,

chiarã : whatever works...to each his/her own as was already said

nitey : i think there are slaves that are not in committed relationships who might feel satisfied at the moment in a "lesser" or less intense degree of submission or even just take comfort in it?

chiarã : i feel it is just about defining one's self...no one else

total_surrender : ~nods~ i am uncollared but do not think of myself as less because of it

freshy : (sorry, hi everyone. i'm away on the phone. my input is that i thought it was about motivation-notlike how much motivation but types of motivation . sorry sorry-hurrying as best as i can)

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : i am no less being un collared

nitey : true doxie, very true..collared does not define self .... you are who you are no?

simply_s : nods, why i said freshy that what i had problem with was more the title. then the context

chiarã : no more than a wedding band defines you

₣яέέ·Şŏŋŋỹ : ;the thing is...be yourself...we all go thru phases...and what suites us now may not tomorrow..what our human need is now,,sexual need, emotional need may change and change often

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : i am me no matter what like me or hate me but i am not changeing ... i mean i am not changeing to fit someone else

nitey : good on you doxie ... good girl ....smiles ... happiness is a wonderful thing

«¤døxîégìr£¤» : i do not feel like i am makeing sense

chiarã : most important thing is to be genuine...and real in whatever degree of submission one finds themselves in

nitey : there are degrees to that too

chiarã : you are doxie

simply_s : making perfect sense doxie.

StealthSpanker™ : if one wishes to call it degrees ... I call it who you are and what you want to achieve

simply_s : think the core of who i am ....that is to strong to change m maybe could pretend for while but eventually it would come through ....  went through different ones of these "degrees learning who i am... some steps forward some back.